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Post by jimmythomson on Feb 5, 2009 1:51:40 GMT -5
I rewatched the fight and I have to say it looks like it was a possibility. BJs legs were just sliding down his back when he would try for a high guard, I know sweat could have been a factor. It was just happening pretty early in the fight. Usually someone who is as skilled in BJJ as BJ is can work with a sweaty individual. However, BJ did say to his corner that GSP felt slippery and was told before the fight to watch for such things because people have suspected this in the past apparently. That is why the guy who caught them was watching them in the first place.
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Post by colmmurphy on Feb 5, 2009 6:49:16 GMT -5
it is believed that GSP, applied vaseline to his back,
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Post by Shooter on Feb 5, 2009 9:56:35 GMT -5
No it's a fact that his corner did it. It could have been an accident but I still think it had little to do with the outcome of the fight.
In a side note Matt Hughes and Matt Serra both said he was greasy when they fought.
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Post by drusskane on Feb 5, 2009 14:42:02 GMT -5
I think personally that the corner were doing breathing exercises but the corner man was stupid not to wipe his hand before doing it. I don't think it mattered the fight result would have been the same. I don't think GSP had anything to do with it. It's a pity his victory has been tainted a bit by these developments.
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Post by Der Vermittler on Feb 5, 2009 15:22:04 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if he had been greasing. I don't like GSP. He talks a lot about respect and crap, but doesn't really walk the walk as he should.
I didn't see this fight, but still. Most fighters/trainers out there are looking for whatever advantage they can get, sometimes that means bending or breaking the rules. It's been said "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." Not saying that GSP DID do it, or that I condone this mentality. I'm just acknowledging that it's there. No sense in being naive about it.
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Post by jimmythomson on Feb 5, 2009 16:43:20 GMT -5
I don't think GSP knew it was happening. Though I do think his corner did it knowingly.
With this all coming to light I start to wonder how many other people from that camp have also greased in their fights. Two names come to mind, Jardine and Rashad Evans. Is there any evidence they greased? No, but just because you aren't caught doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Post by "SIN" Christiansin on Feb 6, 2009 9:56:35 GMT -5
Who cares if Jardine greases, he's not relevent anyway because he can't string together enough wins to really be a title contender. Other then that, okay, you can think about it, but just have the corner watched extra close from now on and watch as they still continue to dominate people. Hughes, Serra, and Penn have a very small chance at beating GSP regardless if they did or didn't grease up during his fights. AND as I have heard they noticed it after the second round and were wiping his back and shoulders between every round from them on out. And if BJ said something wouldn't his corner have felt his legs... There would have been some on his legs to show it was legit. So basically people can say whatever they want, but the three guys that are saying this have been DESTROYED by GSP and I don't think a slippery back played into any of those fights.
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Post by jimmythomson on Feb 6, 2009 15:53:28 GMT -5
Who cares if Jardine greases, he's not relevent anyway because he can't string together enough wins to really be a title contender. Other then that, okay, you can think about it, but just have the corner watched extra close from now on and watch as they still continue to dominate people. Hughes, Serra, and Penn have a very small chance at beating GSP regardless if they did or didn't grease up during his fights. AND as I have heard they noticed it after the second round and were wiping his back and shoulders between every round from them on out. And if BJ said something wouldn't his corner have felt his legs... There would have been some on his legs to show it was legit. So basically people can say whatever they want, but the three guys that are saying this have been DESTROYED by GSP and I don't think a slippery back played into any of those fights. I take it someone took this thread a bit personal? Sorry to upset you, but I was just trying to have an intelligent conversation and see what everyone else thought about it. Never meant to piss anyone off. Also, if you're greasing then yea, it does come into play at some point or another. Just because they whiped his back doesn't mean that it couldn't have been slick still. You ever tried getting Vasoline off your skin with just a dry towel? It doesn't work as good as people are making it seem. All I know is if his corner did cheat, then they should not be allowed back into the UFC. GSP and his camp can still fight, but since his corner tried to cheat then they should not be allowed to be in anyones corner until they're proven innocent or the UFC forgives them. I didn't say I believed Hughes or Serra, I do believe BJ though. He has every reason to complain because GSP's Corner did apply it to his back in the fight. Is it possible it changed the outcome of the fight? Yea it is. Did it? That's where I'm unsure. I'm not the kind of person that thinks because GSP was so dominant beforehand that the greasing played absolutely no part in his dominance of Penn. I'm the kind of person that lets the CSAC or NSAC (Whoever is in charge of this here) do their job and in the end if GSP cheated then we will know. I just love how people who are holding onto GSP's nuts so tightly that they can't see anything else but his "Greatness" fail to even think for a second that it's possible he cheated. Just loosen your grip a bit and try to think rationally. I'm sorry guys, nobody is perfect and I do think GSP had vaseline on his back. Whether it affected the fight or not, it's still ILLEGAL and unsportsmanlike.
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Post by milesallen on Feb 6, 2009 17:04:44 GMT -5
I totally agree with what is being said here. I'm not a GSP fan though so I'd love to see them do something if he's cheating just because of the way he acts. Most of the time people that act like him turn out to be little bitches in the end, or from my experience..
Take Rob for example ;D oh you know i'm only playing rob...
But yeah...greasin' is greasin'...poppin' roids is poppin' roids...
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Post by Der Vermittler on Feb 6, 2009 17:43:32 GMT -5
I totally agree with what is being said here. I'm not a GSP fan though so I'd love to see them do something if he's cheating just because of the way he acts. Most of the time people that act like him turn out to be little bitches in the end, or from my experience.. GSP is already a bit of a lil bitch. Everyone gave Matt Hughes such crap about laughing when Serra KO'd GSP. GSP goes on about about people respecting him and crap, but he's the one that went in and started it all by talking crap after Hughes beat Penn saying he wasn't impressed with his performance. Hughes laughing was just his way of saying the same thing to St. Pierre. Then he acts really gracious in defeat immediately after losing the title, but eventually he shows his true colors and starts dissing Serra's skills and saying he took the fight lightly and that's the only reason he lost. This guy seems to have it in his head that he can do no wrong when he's an instigator, and a hypocrite. He lost me as a fan a while ago. That being said, he still is a really good fighter and because I respect those skills, I really hope he wasn't cheating cause that would just be one more big ole dissappointment.
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Post by Shooter on Feb 7, 2009 9:00:37 GMT -5
Would you be willing to admit that GSP didn't know the lube was there. I agree that it sucks that his corner did it, but I really don't think he knew it was there and for every round after he was toweled down. BJ has a right to complain but it didn't really make a difference. GSP dominated with superior wrestling and alot of punches to the face.
Jacksons fellow corner men fucked up and should be punished but not GSP.
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Danilo Braga
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Post by Danilo Braga on Feb 7, 2009 10:05:40 GMT -5
Sherk said he was slippery too, that's 100 fights experience between Sherk, Hughes, and Serra saying he was greasing, this whole deal is getting fishier with every day that goes by
I'm not ready to say GSP willingly cheated, and I'm not saying he would have lost these fights if he wasn't slippery, but you can't be slippery like that in MMA, that's a huge deal, slippery in MMA is worse than slippery in any other sport
Anyway, looks like they're changing up some rules to prevent this stuff, good idea.
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Post by jimmythomson on Feb 7, 2009 14:45:19 GMT -5
As I stated before, if a guy takes roids and loses he still gets in a lot of shit. If a guy greases, he should get into a lot of shit. Rules are there for a reason and just because it didn't change the outcome of a fight it damn sure could have.
That being said, GSP's cutman was a boxing cutman (Phil Nurse) and he is used to being able to rub boxers on their shoulders/back after applying vaseline to their face. In boxing it doesn't matter, but this isn't boxing. This is one of the biggest fights in the history of MMA and people are shrugging it off like it didn't happen. I seen BJ go for an omoplata and his legs just slid off GSP's shoulder. I seen him go for high guard and his legs immediately started sliding down. It even happened when he had rubber guard. It seemed like GSP was doing all this with minimal effort too. Until he started passing his guard he was constantly slipping out of shit with no problem. I just think it should be investigated because I would be angry if I lost because some guy cheated.
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Post by drusskane on Feb 8, 2009 12:56:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe Sean Shrek's word on anything. He has after coming out and saying that fighters can have this oily bath the night before a fight which causes the pores to be blocked or some shit like that. The pores open up when they sweat causing a greasy back. I'm sketchy on the scientific details but If that is true then BJJ artists will always be at a disadvantage because UFC can't ban baths can they?
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